Forums General Discussions I can't remain silent anymore!

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  • #8557
    simplex
    Moderator

      Guys, I know what Penguin Traders is about, and in principle I do not want to abuse it for off topic threads. But enough is enough, and I just can’t remain silent anymore!

      Some of you know I’m German, and most of you will probably read or view daily news. For several months now, a new informal political movement has established in my country, called PEGIDA. Right-winged activists, many of them showing a more or less racist attitude, frequently marching through the streets of some of our cities. Until now, I only was worried and repulsed by their words. Until now, I guessed similar problems were greater in some other European countries, and maybe this is correct.

      Many of our politicians are trying to belittle the problem as ‘worried citizens’, whom we should listen to and care for. Partially, this may be correct. But now, I’ve silently listened long enough.

      Today’s news were really shocking me, displaying a new level of publicly stated political extremism. Yesterday, during a demonstration, a in Germany well-known novel author of non-German origin, stated in front of thousands of demonstrators, that ‘there are different solutions to a problem, however unfortunately the concentration camps are not open anymore‘ (my own, possibly unprecise translation from the news).

      This is not only intolerable and prosecutable (at least in Germany), it’s disgusting and deeply embarrassing, especially in front of the background German history provides.

      These PEGIDA demonstrators don’t get tired yelling ‘Wir sind das Volk!’ (We are the people!), thereby ruthlessly abusing one of the core slogans of the ‘peaceful revolution’ in GDR 25 years ago, which led to the reunion of Germany. My answer is: ‘NO, YOU ARE NOT!’  You don’t represent the entire German people, only a dumb and partially criminal minority that unfortunately requires more and more of our attention.

      Looking back in history, I’m now wondering how many ‘worried citizens’ marched in demonstrations in late 1920’s in Germany, and formed the cores of the SA troops only a few months later. Yes, maybe I’m exaggerating, but I’m deeply upset!

      I do not want to start a broad political discussion here! All I want to do is to decidedly dissociate from those disgusting PEGIDA slogans, speaches, and actions.

      Please don’t call me naive: I’m aware of the problems these waves of refugees are causing in my country, and will in future. It won’t be easy to integrate them in our society, and it won’t be easy to cope with the social problems arising. But what’s the alternative to humanity?

      I hope this thread won’t start a controversial political discussion – if it does, I’ll apologize and ask Saver to delete the thread. For me, it’s nothing but a personal differentiation, hopefully a clear one.

      Best, simplex

      A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top- and bottom-fishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)

      #8559
      Bartleby
      Participant

        I´m with you simplex.  This “author” should have stayed at home writing cat novels. It´s disgusting how he uses his non-german origin as a propaganda weapon.

        “If even he says so..” could be a thought in many heads…. dangerous!

        Sometimes i feel ashamed for the small-mindedness of some of our citizens. It´s always said that they are only a few, but i fear that there are much more likeminded people, just not actively expressing their thoughts.

         

        "A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is a reality." (John Lennon)

        #8561
        gg53
        Participant

          I’m with you, thanks and much appreciate your words and attitude.

          I understand the problems ahead, but I’ll be much happier if  I see some Anti-PEGIDA counter-movements, following them on each and every march and gathering, shouting “NO!! We are the people!”.

          Until than, I’m worried for Germany (and Europe). We’ve “already been there”…

           

          G.

          #8564
          simplex
          Moderator

            I understand the problems ahead, but I’ll be much happier if I see some Anti-PEGIDA counter-movements, following them on each and every march and gathering, shouting “NO!! We are the people!”.

            Thank you, G! Those counter movements do exist, and it’s often a major endeavor for the police to keep both groups apart. But you know how news are working: PEGIDA is the main topic, the counter movement a ‘subordinate clause’, unless kind of a street battle takes place. At least this is a fact over here, I don’t know about international news in other places.

            If anybody is interested in more detail: the topic found its way to wikipedia very fast, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akif_Pirin%C3%A7ci (refer to paragraph ‘Controversies’)

            In case this is being deleted or modified, I saved yesterday’s status it as a PDF (attached).

            s.

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            A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top- and bottom-fishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)

            #8571
            Edington
            Participant

              Gentlemen,

              I am not looking to get into a big discussion, but I would like to add my “2 cents” and share my view as well. Some of you might not agree with my views and that is OK.

              The current situation has created a fertile field for all sorts of right wing movements across Europe. Establishing counter movements is not the answer. If this continues, it will drive a dividing wedge between EU member states and the people, until the EU tears itself apart. Fear is a very powerful weapon. The simplest solution is to take away the fertile field – solve the situation. Without it, these movements will have no context nor appeal. However, i fear EU politicians are very slow to react.

              Europe needs a well articulated policy for immigration/asylum for all member states that is respected and enforced. If you can not reach consensus, have a union wide referendum. I think most Europeans choose humanity, but we have to define what it is in this situation. I don’t think many agree with the concentration camp remarks or other right wing slogans. I do not. If people are running away from war, let them stay and provide for them until the war ends. That in my view is the humane thing to do. But there is another problem, many of these people are not refugees, but also “economic migrants” who are running from poverty. In terms of immigration, I am pro immigration, but it has to be based on the economic need of the country with a certain criteria. If you need plumbers/electricians/programmers, then allow for these professions to come over. A permanent asylum and open door policy is not a good idea as a country loses its ability to control its immigration process. If this policy is enforced, the EU will have to permanently accept people from every poverty stricken country in Asia and Africa. This is clearly not economically feasible nor sound for many reasons in my honest opinion.

              Best, Michael Edington

              #8651
              simplex
              Moderator

                Free Raif Badawi!

                Saudi Arabia: 10 brutal facts beyond the Raif Badawi case

                5 ways you can help Raif Badawi

                Saudi Arabia: Every lash of Raif Badawi defies international law

                A cruel regime, whose ethical values seem to be stuck in the dark ages, continues to enforce their interests by arbitrary detentions and  brutal, inhumane punishments. The shocking case of journalist Raif Badawi is only one amongst many.

                Please check the ‘5 ways you can help’ link above!

                simplex
                (Supporting Member of Amnesty International)

                A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top- and bottom-fishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)

                #8654
                Jhlewis10
                Participant

                  I will pray for his release.  I am not hopeful however.  Thousands of men, women and children have been crucified, beheaded, sold into sex slavery etc in that region, and there is no outrage.

                  #8658
                  gg53
                  Participant

                    I will pray for his release. I am not hopeful however. Thousands of men, women and children have been crucified, beheaded, sold into sex slavery etc in that region, and there is no outrage.

                    Yeah, it’s hard to cry or shout when your throat is full of OIL…

                     

                    G.

                    #8661
                    Jhlewis10
                    Participant

                      Truth.

                      #8668
                      Revolution
                      Participant

                         

                         

                        I will pray for his release. I am not hopeful however. Thousands of men, women and children have been crucified, beheaded, sold into sex slavery etc in that region, and there is no outrage.

                        Yeah, it’s hard to cry or shout when your throat is full of OIL… G.

                         

                        What religion??

                         

                        http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34675324

                         

                        Show me ONE country which did NOT broke so called “human rights” if such ever existed?? Every one of them have done it, doing it and will do it again.

                         

                         

                        #8669
                        Jhlewis10
                        Participant

                          I said region not religion.

                          #8670
                          Revolution
                          Participant

                            I said region not religion.

                             

                            Yes, I have misread it. So, sorry about that.

                             

                            However, main issue still stands and it is not restricted to whatever we think it may be (religion, region, or any other). Every country is an aggresor, against their own or other people.

                            #8975
                            smallcat
                            Participant

                              Guys, I know what Penguin Traders is about, and in principle I do not want to abuse it for off topic threads. But enough is enough, and I just can’t remain silent anymore! Some of you know I’m German, and most of you will probably read or view daily news. For several months now, a new informal political movement has established in my country, called PEGIDA. Right-winged activists, many of them showing a more or less racist attitude, frequently marching through the streets of some of our cities. Until now, I only was worried and repulsed by their words. Until now, I guessed similar problems were greater in some other European countries, and maybe this is correct. Many of our politicians are trying to belittle the problem as ‘worried citizens’, whom we should listen to and care for. Partially, this may be correct. But now, I’ve silently listened long enough. Today’s news were really shocking me, displaying a new level of publicly stated political extremism. Yesterday, during a demonstration, a in Germany well-known novel author of non-German origin, stated in front of thousands of demonstrators, that ‘there are different solutions to a problem, however unfortunately the concentration camps are not open anymore‘ (my own, possibly unprecise translation from the news). This is not only intolerable and prosecutable (at least in Germany), it’s disgusting and deeply embarrassing, especially in front of the background German history provides. These PEGIDA demonstrators don’t get tired yelling ‘Wir sind das Volk!’ (We are the people!), thereby ruthlessly abusing one of the core slogans of the ‘peaceful revolution’ in GDR 25 years ago, which led to the reunion of Germany. My answer is: ‘NO, YOU ARE NOT!’ You don’t represent the entire German people, only a dumb and partially criminal minority that unfortunately requires more and more of our attention. Looking back in history, I’m now wondering how many ‘worried citizens’ marched in demonstrations in late 1920’s in Germany, and formed the cores of the SA troops only a few months later. Yes, maybe I’m exaggerating, but I’m deeply upset! I do not want to start a broad political discussion here! All I want to do is to decidedly dissociate from those disgusting PEGIDA slogans, speaches, and actions. Please don’t call me naive: I’m aware of the problems these waves of refugees are causing in my country, and will in future. It won’t be easy to integrate them in our society, and it won’t be easy to cope with the social problems arising. But what’s the alternative to humanity? I hope this thread won’t start a controversial political discussion – if it does, I’ll apologize and ask Saver to delete the thread. For me, it’s nothing but a personal differentiation, hopefully a clear one. Best, simplex

                              I am with you bro …. There are many bad hearts people there, from Skin Heads to politicians. So many people are died (most of them are Jew), because are used as guinea pigs, and the bad heart peoples think that their “Fuehrer”  is a great one. But actually he (hitler) is a devil. So many Turkish people are “imported” some decades ago after world war, to rebuild the country. What do they get ? Discrimination, especially after “die einheit”, the reunion …. :-(

                              #9072
                              Jhlewis10
                              Participant

                                Prayers to all our French brothers.

                                #9102
                                simplex
                                Moderator

                                  No words.

                                  s.

                                  Attachments:
                                  You must be logged in to view attached files.

                                  A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top- and bottom-fishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)

                                  #9169
                                  limprobable
                                  Participant

                                    Hello,

                                    I am from Paris and i want to thanks you for every thoughts.

                                    It just warms my heart to see that some people in the world thinks of us.

                                     

                                    Thank you.

                                     

                                     

                                    • This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by limprobable.
                                    #9171
                                    fasttrade
                                    Participant

                                      sorry wrongly posted

                                      • This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by fasttrade.
                                      #9176
                                      simplex
                                      Moderator

                                        I am from Paris and i want to thanks you for every thoughts. It just warms my heart to see that some people in the world thinks of us.

                                        A minute of silence and a light for the victims, their families, and their friends is the least we can do.

                                        I’m living close to Bonn, and I remember that bomb in Bonn Main Station, which could be deactivated months ago. If the Bonn perpetrators wouldn’t have been too stupid to make the igniter work properly we would have faced a similarly devastating scenario over here. I’m afraid we won’t be so lucky over here all the time.

                                        In an open and tolerant society, we will never be totally safe against inhumane terrorist attacks. And while maintaining and maybe enhancing our ability to defend our values, we must never question the very idea of those values, only in order to defend them. The perpetrators may consider this a sign of weakness, but in spite of that this is our main strength as a society.

                                        Like the idea of modern democracy was created in ancient Greece, the core of our modern values was created in Paris: ‘Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité.‘ Modern constitutions of Germany, the USA, and many more countries may be way more elaborate, but you will find that idea in most of them. We may be threatened, but we must not draw back.

                                        simplex

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                                        A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top- and bottom-fishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)

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